Whether You Are For Open Borders or Law and Order, the Attention Is Good

I am posting the following comment I found at Ace of Spades because it probably represents the thinking of many who have not been closely following the immigration issue the past few years.  I also really like the conversational writing style of the author, "The Artist Formerly Known as Fred," (although I personally do not care for the use of the word "retard").

Not to be a total retard, or anything, but why is immigration reform all of a sudden the most pressing issue facing America in, well, ever?

I mean, most people agree its been a problem for like 30 years. Administrations of both parties have either ignored it, or granted amnesty (Reagan!).

All I know is, I wake up one morning and there's like thousands of hispanics marching in the streets, Michelle Malkin's face is contorted in rage over the shabby condition of the border, Bush is being referred to as el Presidente Jorge Arbusto, by conservatives, and John Derbyshire is pounding his sippy cup on his highchair again (does anyone else sense that John Podhoretz would love to thrash that limey dork?).

And I'm like...wha' happen? Do we really need to solve this in like the next two months? Problems been around a while, right? What's changed in the last 6 months that makes this Issue Numero Uno on the nation's political agenda? Seriously. What?

Most of those who follow politics closely have seen this issue boiling for a while now, as have many non-politically attentive citizens that deal with the effects of the illegal immigration problem everyday.  I am sure there are many, though, who knew illegal immigration was something to be dealt with, but were shocked to wake up to find it suddenly on the front burner.  I am somewhere in the middle.  I knew it was a problem that would play largely in the 2006 and 2008 elections, but was still surprised to see it getting so much attention.  Regardless of which side of the issue immigration activists are on, open borders or law and order, they should all be quite pleased that the issue is finally getting plenty of attention.

Comments

[John Galt]

This is not the #1 issue. Iraq is.

[The Listkeeper]

Why is it a sudden, pressing issue? We've been manipulated by Yet Another Lib Press Meme.

[nash]

Who says Americans have short attention spans? A few weeks ago we had several hundred thousand illegal aliens marching all across the United States and demanding "Amnesty Now!" That's what put this issue front and center.

[Truzenzuzex]

Illegal immigration seems to be one of those issues that has been building up slowly over a period of years. Personally, it became an issue for me only about 5 or 6 years ago, when I noticed a huge influx of non-english speaking Hispanics in my former home town.

I am surprised at its sudden potency, however. It has been simmering a long time, but to suddenly explode as the major issue of the day was not something I expected.

[schizoid]

What happened is Bush decided to push another amnesty thinking that it would win support among Hispanics while no one else would care. He thought wrong and now he has a mess on his hands.

[BD]

If there's one thing W's been willing to do, it is take on issues other folks have refused to touch for decades. Immigration is on that list.

The insanity, though, comes from too many people on both sides of the debate refusing to put their brains in gear. They just assume ill motives and start screaming.

On our side, there's one thing folks ought to accept right now.

"Just enforce the law" isn't going to work, because "Just enforce the law" requires mass deportation of the lot of them and there's no one in the Congress who is willing to do that.

Now, every time someone says "Mass deportations" folks on the "enforce the law" side say "straw man - no one's arguing for mass deportations."

But you are when you accuse everyone else of selling out, etc. (which is where whatsizname really crossed the line - WHAT A TEMPER TANTRUM!).

Admit that "enforce the law" isn't an option; focus on developing policy through the current debate which will make the climate decidedly more unfriendly for illegal immigration (national employment roster employers can check easily to determine a person's status; disallow deduction of wages to illegals as "business expenses" on tax returns; make it a separate crime to claim such wages as business expenses on tax returns; make the person signing the return, regardless of the form of the business operation, responsible for verifyign that all wages claimed as business expenses were paid to legals, etc.).

ALL THAT OUR SIDE ACCOMPLISHES BY ACTING LIKE IDIOTS IS FORFEITING OUR POWER TO INFLUENCE THE DEBATE.

[schizoid]

"ALL THAT OUR SIDE ACCOMPLISHES BY ACTING LIKE IDIOTS IS FORFEITING OUR POWER TO INFLUENCE THE DEBATE"

The Kos kids act like idiots all the time and they have tremendous influence within their party. Maturity is overrated.

[USMC Pilot]

BD: I am pleased to find someone who has bothered to think before writing. Would you also acknowledge that (1) 6 million unemployed Americans can't fill the jobs being done by 12 million illegal Mexicans, (2) if we try to force those 12 million illegals to leave, some of them are not going to go quietly.

I believe we must issue non-forgeable guest worker cards to those that are already here. However, those cards should in no way be a path to citizenship. The Mexicans would be more than happy with this arrangement, and it would appease the whackos on the far right who are looking for blood.

Of course, border security must be improved!

[Terrye]

I think several factors are involved. Bush was willing to take on the issue of reform which in turn got the big rallies going. Most presidents just kicked it down the road.

I think that ANSWER saw an oppurtunity to split conservatives with the help of the media and the right was more than willing to help them do just that.

There is also an upcoming election in Mexico with a socialist running and if he wins the days of Fox might not seem so bad to a lot of people. Just like the rallies for immigration worked against the immigrants here, the rhetoric of the right has worked for the socialists there. It is all more complicated than we might think at first glance.

We have two sides of the debate acting like small children who want what they want when they want it and Bush and the rest of us are in the middle.

I can honestly say that the refusal of the hardliners to see anything short of mass deportation as amnesty and the refusal of the left to deal with limits of any kind on immigration has pushed me toward Bush's position.

But the attacks on Bush by his so called back stabbing base have been not only discouraging they have been stupid.

[kirktoe]

"What happened is Bush decided to push another amnesty thinking that it would win support among Hispanics while no one else would care. He thought wrong and now he has a mess on his hands.:

This issue is not something Bush has jsut "decided" to do something about. In fact Bush has not wavered in 6+ years on this issue. He has been talking about a guest worker program since 2000. Whether you agree with him on it or not, he was out in front of this issue a LONG time ago.

[kirktoe]

"We have two sides of the debate acting like small children who want what they want when they want it and Bush and the rest of us are in the middle."

To USMC Pilot: first of all, thank you for your service to our country. You have my undying respect and admiration.

Second, your post was right on the money. ANSWER (in conjunction with the media) has done a masterful job (so far) in splitting conservatives on this. I don't think some of the prominent pundits needed much help though (Anne Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Peggy Noonan, etc). This back-stabbing of Bush started back in the fall with the Harriet Miers nomination. I must admit I was shocked and dismayed not just at the level of criticism directed at Miers but in the arrogant manner it was done (I believe Ann Coulter called those of us who took a "wait and see" attitude toward Miers as dogs lapping at Bush feet). I really beginning to believe some of these pundits are hoping for a GOP defeat this year because they could claim the they were part of it (i.e. it would make them look powerful).

I am a Reagan conservative and I think he would be ashamed of the way some conservatives are acting. And BTW, Bush is doing more to address the immigration issue than Reagan ever did.

[USMC Pilot]

"There is also an upcoming election in Mexico with a socialist running and if he wins the days of Fox might not seem so bad to a lot of people."

Corruption in Mexico is so bad that I doubt it realy matters much who is elected. Between the Catholic church's position on birth control and the corruption, Mexico will continue to be a basket case forever. Well, at least for a very long time.

[schizoid]

Yes, he has been talking about a guest worker program on and off for years. But now is the time he chose to try to push it through and that's why the issue is getting so much attention.

[BD]

USMC Pilot:

"Guest worker" status should have nothing to do, one way or the other, with citizenship.

There is one problem, though - if "guest workers" are allowed to bring in their families, there will be babies born in the US to guest workers, which will make them citizens, which will give those guest workers a leg up on citizenship. And that's a constitutional issue, so there's no easily attained fix.

Guest worker would have to be short-term (harvest season?) & authorize entry to the employee only.

Even then, though, you'd have to find some way to keep pregnant women from entering as guest workers wihtout running afoul to some sort of equal protection / sex discrimination claim.

schizoid:

And what, exactly, has the lack of maturity of the Kos kids gotten them in their party?

What elections have they won since the Kos kids gained influence? What does George Soros have to show for his money?

Is there any chance that Washington Republicans might be acting a bit more prudently & appropriately if the Democrats weren't quite so wacked?

If the Democrats were more in touch with reality, wouldn't there be fewer Republicans saying (about us) "Where are they gonna go?"

If we're going to be the "Daddy" party, then giving in to emotion is out.

[USMC Pilot]

kirktoe:

Thanks, but I was just doing my job like the rest of the guys.

If you want to read about a real Marine Corps hero go here:

http://www.popasmoke.com/stories/pless_crew.html

[Republicanpundit]

USMC pilot. Did you have to read Max Weber's thesis on Protestant settled countries and Catholic settled countries in the new world?

Between Spanish rule and Church influence, Mexico never had a chance.

The one thing that the British brought here to America was proper civil government. That is the major difference between us and Mexico, who was settled by Spain. Spain's government at that time was organized theivery and corruption from the King, who owned everything. What was not owned by the King belonged to the Catholic Church.

They have never been able to establish a proper civil government.

This is not a screed against the Catholic Church, but just fact of history.

Thank God that HenryVII and Elizabeth were protestants.

[kirktoe]

To USMC Pilot: thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading it. I know one thing - that man is a LOT braver than me.

One of the things that really irritates me is how the Vietnam Vets were treated (and are still treated by some) when they came home. I was born in 1965 so I didn't experience the news coverage first-hand, but I did watch John Kerry's senate testimony in it's entirety on C-Span during the 2004 campaign so I got a feel for the mood of those days. Plus I can't imagine it was much different than what I see when I visit the kook left blogs today.

[schizoid]

"And what, exactly, has the lack of maturity of the Kos kids gotten them in their party?"

They pumped up Dean's candidacy and pulled all of the other nominees to the left, they (stupidly) forced Reid to reneg on his promise to support Miers, and they got a bunch of Dems to vote to decertify Ohio's vote. That's just off the top of my head.

"What elections have they won since the Kos kids gained influence? What does George Soros have to show for his money?"

None. I never said acting like an idiot was popular with voters, only with politicians, which if you think about it is more important. Why should I care who gets elected if I can control what they do once they're in office?

"Is there any chance that Washington Republicans might be acting a bit more prudently & appropriately if the Democrats weren't quite so wacked? If the Democrats were more in touch with reality, wouldn't there be fewer Republicans saying (about us) "Where are they gonna go?"

I'm not sure what you're asking. If you're saying that if the Dems were more sane, the Reps would listen to us more, I agree, which means that it is in the Dems' best interest not to be sane.

"If we're going to be the 'Daddy' party, then giving in to emotion is out"

And so is getting what we want. Politicians pay attention to people who bitch.

[The Listkeeper]

Here's something to think about... The typical Mexican illegal isn't going to be able to afford the fines or fees necessary to go on the path to citizenship as proposed by Bush... They're either going to have to go back or go to jail. The illegals that WILL be availing themselves of this are the high tech workers who've let their visas expire or have otherwise wound up illegal.

[jainphx]

I sometimes think that dissent with ones own affiliation does bring change but change must be done from within that organization.To hear some say I'll sit out or I'll vote Democrat ,surrenders their own ideals. Why would you fight for change then when the going gets tough surrender? Makes no sense to me.